When Working Together Doesn't Work

In this episode, Joey Shewee, a seasoned Enneagram expert and author of When Working Together Doesn't Work, shares her deep understanding of this personality system and how it can transform personal and professional relationships. Whether you're new to the Enneagram or looking to deepen your knowledge, Joey offers practical insights for everyday life.    

We discuss how the enneagram and Joey's book can help with family and workplace environments!

Thanks For Listening!
Joanna Anderson & Sue Nicolaidis

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Transcript

You Forgot (00:44)
Our guest today, Joey Shewee has been a student of the Enneagram for decades. she's a sought after theorist with bone level understanding of the unique motivations that inform human behavior. Joey has advanced the historic wisdom of the Enneagram for modern consumption and practical application. She's a management consultant, an executive coach for individuals,

an exceptional teacher, daughter, wife, mother, friend, and now author. We are so honored to chat with Joey about her latest release, When Working Together Doesn't Work. Please welcome to the podcast, Joey Schuey.

Jojo (01:25)
Hi, Joey!

Joey Schewee (01:26)
Yay!

Hi!

You Forgot (01:30)
I'm gonna put a little clapper in there too.

Joey Schewee (01:31)
Yeah.

You Forgot (01:35)
Thank you for doing this for us, with us. Well, I'm through. Hell yeah! I needed a person.

Joey Schewee (01:37)
my gosh, I'm thrilled. Thanks for coming to my book signing yesterday. Thanks for coming

Jojo (01:43)
Was that so

fun?

Joey Schewee (01:44)
back from out of state to come do it.

You Forgot (01:47)
I know I really did. I was like, I need to get home. Come home for Joey. Here's the book. I love the book. I love the artwork. It's it's so

Joey Schewee (01:55)
Yay. I love the artwork. I

got two options for that cover and I bet I sent it to you Sue. Both options and I think you liked that one with me. Because pretty much eights, nines and ones liked that one. The practical people liked that one. Everybody else liked the blue with the random. The other one was like, Joanne was like this like pretty blue with.

More pastels, was definitely, I guess, catch your eye, but it was just nine random faces, and I was like, no. When I saw that one, when I saw the one that is there, was like, someone, I don't know if they knew me, but they literally created the best. It's like they created that cover with me in mind, because it's like, let's just get down to it, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jojo (02:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, let's get down to the nuts and bolts of it.

You Forgot (02:42)
It's so great, women.

I love when a graphic designer gets the vision. Some rewarding. All right. We just need you to maybe explain in layman's terms in like what the Enneagram is.

Joey Schewee (02:48)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Yes, I've had 30 years of practice on this one because of course that is a common question and where I've kind of narrowed it down to is it is a personality typing system. It is the only system on the planet, the only existing system that types you on motivation. Every other system out there types you on behavior. So Myers-Briggs, CliftonStrengths, the disk assessment, I mean there's hundreds if not thousands, colors.

even Lincey Oni's working genius, all helpful, they all type you on behavior, which is good, but our behaviors change, right? Human autonomy says our behaviors are up to us. And so where those other systems are going to falter are when our behaviors change.

your motivation doesn't change. So Enneagram is the hard wiring. That's what my language for it is, it's your hard wiring. Like this is, and that's why I almost hesitate to call it a personality system because this is what's informing your personality. And that doesn't change, right? Your motivation, the way you see the world, the way thinking and feeling and doing uniquely come together to work for you as an individual human being, it happens in one of nine ways and.

While behaviors can ebb and flow and change and shift, motivation doesn't. So it becomes really helpful if you want to change behaviors to know why you're doing what you do. And that's what I love about Enneagram because regardless of who I work with, if it's someone I see at a random cafe or if I'm in a one-to-one session,

I'm gonna read their mail, right? Like that's what people are always blown away, because they're like, how do you know this about me? like, well, I know this about this type. And that's universal. And that's fun. Like regardless of what country you were born in, you know, whatever, that's a good way to look at it. And I say, Enneagram is, people think it's been around, they'll say two to 4,000 years. I don't try to put a timeline on it. What I do say is, you can trace.

The understanding that all humans are drawing from thinking, feeling, and doing, you can trace that all the way back to Plato and Aristotle. Plato's tripartite soul is usually presented as a pyramid with doing at the base, feeling on top of that, and thinking as the apex. And anywhere in history where you see an intersection of philosophy and psychology, it's around the balancing of those three centers.

So, Aniogram gets right to the heart of all of that and says, okay, well, here's where your imbalance is based on type. Now you know you can consciously choose something else, which is pretty cool.

You Forgot (05:51)
So cool.

Jojo (05:51)
Totally.

Totally. when, you know, as a novice Enneagram person, of course, I just wanted to learn all about myself, obviously. But now...

Joey Schewee (06:00)
as a self,

also as a self-focused seven. Three sevens and fours are self-focused. I know, because I have both of my boys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Joanne, what that really means, though, I want you to know, it's not like I'm awesome, which sevens you do think that. But what it is is you know exactly what you want from your environment and you are confident in your ability to get it.

Jojo (06:06)
Thanks

Was that right? Well, that's your ex. But I was just...

We did it.

Yes. Yes!

Joey Schewee (06:29)
Yeah, yes,

and so threes, fours, and sevens, y'all have the most without even trying. It's your hard wiring, you have the most natural influence on your environment.

Jojo (06:44)
I don't know that.

Well, I telling Sue before you came on, I wish I'd had this book now that I kind of know myself. I wish I'd had this book when I was a teacher, especially when I was a team leader for like a group of 10 teachers, because it would have helped me understand, especially some of the more what I thought were difficult personalities. They weren't difficult. We were just not coming from the same spot at all. And I haven't

I think I have an eight wing and I think I used to piss some people off but I wasn't meaning to. I just needed shit to get done.

Joey Schewee (07:23)
And I say that all the time. I say, think with very few exceptions, we don't set out to piss each other off, but man, we do because we're coming to the exact same scenario from nine different viewpoints, regardless of what the scenario is. So that's interesting. And you and I, I am an eight, you're a seven. ⁓ You and I in threes, we're in that independent stance.

Jojo (07:38)
Yeah.

Joey Schewee (07:52)
And half the world are ones, twos and sixes, but the other half aren't, that's not an even split between three, sevens and eights in the independent stance and fours, fives and nines. I actually believe only the smallest stance, the smallest group of people are three, sevens and eights.

and we just really, really get under the skin of ones, twos and sixes. Sue has an eight wing as well as a nine, so it makes her spicy. Like she's, I call nines with an eight wing spicy nines because most nines don't have an eight wing and when they do, they come in hot.

Jojo (08:16)
Yes.

You

Joey Schewee (08:31)
They can hold their own. It's all, they're all that eight. I say her eight wing is writing checks that her nine butt doesn't want to cash all the time.

Jojo (08:38)
Totally. ⁓

Joey Schewee (08:42)
So she'll, you know, she'll come in hot and fiery, but then she's like, wait, I actually do because of her hard wiring. She sees it from both sides. it conflict doesn't energize her like it energizes me as an eight. And you and I haven't talked about this too, but she nines with an eight wing overcommit. You like your eight wing says, yes, I want to do all of it. And then you get back to your nine life and you're like, why the hell did I say yes to that?

You Forgot (08:42)
Bye!

Jojo (08:50)
Mm-hmm.

You Forgot (09:09)
But in my older age, I tap out on the committing. think, you know, like, but I did used to do that perfect example, how we met at school, you know, like, I'll sign up to run this, you know, in gala. Like, yeah. And then I'm like, immediately, why did I do that? I did that when Marta was five, like,

Joey Schewee (09:15)
Yes, yes.

Gayla.

Yeah.

You Forgot (09:38)
with running the daisies troop for Girl Scouts. Overcommit. I was asked not to come back because I didn't. I didn't do the continuing education. You had to do continuing education to take care of the five-year-olds and make crafts.

Joey Schewee (09:50)
or the

And you're like, no, I've had two of them, I'm good, thank you. I real world experience. Yeah.

You Forgot (10:02)
That's funny. Yeah, I do

realize that I can ⁓ stop myself from making a commitment I know I'm not going to keep because I don't want to do that because then I have to think of all the excuses to get out of it.

Joey Schewee (10:08)
Yeah.

all of it and and ones twos and sixes that third stance is the responsive stance that's half the world it's good like i say jojo you and i are in the it's weird to call you jojo since i go by jojo too but it's a little weird yeah but we you and i like for us we're in that independent stance so i say if the world's blowing up next to a three seven or eight

Jojo (10:29)
It's okay.

You Forgot (10:30)
No, no,

Joey Schewee (10:41)
We can choose to do something about it if we want, but we can just as easily stand right next to that explosion and be unaffected by it. That's our superpower and it becomes our kryptonite because ones, twos and sixes are the opposite of us. They're historically called the dependent stance. So we'd be opposite of independent. I've renamed them responsive. They really don't like to be called dependent. They're responsive because they have an external reference point. So if the world's blowing up next to them,

Jojo (10:49)
percent.

Joey Schewee (11:11)
they have to do something about it. They literally are hardwired and motivated to say, I cannot not do something. They're wired for it. And so they flock, ones, twos, and sixes in droves flock to careers in industries that are responsive. Education, healthcare, ministry. you and I don't, there are not a lot of sevens and eights in education.

And when we are, we're dynamic and awesome and the kids love us and we tend to really annoy the people who have their reference point on us and don't understand why we're not freaking out about the world blowing up, right? So, yeah, yeah. Mm, mm.

Jojo (11:58)
my god, yes. Yes. And I'm married to a two and I now it's

all kind of making sense, especially like if the world's blowing up around our kids and a bad choice that they make, I'm like, ⁓ guess you're gonna have to look at that. But then the husband's like, fix it all. It's like he feels what they're feeling.

Joey Schewee (12:12)
Learning.

he absolutely does, as a two. He is the truest empath. Two's, that's the non-negotiable. I say there's a non-negotiable with every type. And for two's, the non-negotiable is they're gonna feel what the person in front of them is feeling before they ever connect to their own feelings.

You Forgot (12:37)
⁓ that does sound like Matt.

Jojo (12:37)
Ain't that the truth? Ain't that the truth?

Joey Schewee (12:41)
And with no line to thinking, it doesn't mean he's incapable of logic and objective reason, what you have double by the way, because you don't have a direct line to feeling. So for you, I say, this is my brother and my mom, my brother's a seven, my mom's a two, and I say, but after watching them for all these years, 45 years, I say, ⁓ sevens are gonna offend twos just by the way they.

Jojo (12:51)
you

True.

Joey Schewee (13:09)
like take up space and live life. Yeah, yeah. And do you see how much like, y'all, you and Matt are fine, you're great. Yeah, I mean, that's awesome. But can you imagine how many marriages are like, ⁓ this is not, you know, if you don't know this tool and if you don't know that's what's happening, I've had so many people, that's the other thing people tell me is, my God, this would have saved my marriage, this relationship, this, this, this, yeah.

Jojo (13:12)
100 %

Now it's

No, even just, I mean, I've studied the Enneagram, but even just reading this book helped me understand Matt Moore, and we're not coworkers, but it still helped.

Joey Schewee (13:46)
You're right, because that's what I'm saying. It's written for corporate spaces, but think about parenting. Parenting is managing, right? So it's gonna help you in parenting. It's gonna help you in your marriage. my gosh, I want this to be in pro and college sports teams. I think it would kill in those arenas. So quick, so easy, and it just fosters so much understanding so that you can stop being distracted by the people.

Jojo (13:53)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

You Forgot (14:07)
Thank

Joey Schewee (14:14)
and coworkers and teammates who are pissing you off and just do better.

Jojo (14:18)
Yeah, and work as a team. Right off the bat on your book, you talk about something that fascinated me and I hope you can explain it to our listeners, the fallibility of the golden rule. We're all taught the golden rule, treat each other as you would like to be treated. Can you talk about the fallibility of that?

Joey Schewee (14:36)
Yes, it comes

from a very personal story. I as an eight, I'm direct, blunt, firm. If you sugarcoat or beat around the bush when you're presenting me with anything, I'm out. Like I will dismiss you and move on. So that's what I was offering to the world. I was treating everyone exactly like I wanted to be treated. And it took me in to get to my first job in investments. And I called my mom at like 23 and I was like, okay.

⁓ Golden Rule's not working for me. I'm treating everyone like I want to be treated. And I keep getting reported to HR for it. Like, what is going

And so it is fallible. The golden rule is fallible in that we actually need to, and I think they've come through and said it's actually the platinum rule or something like treat people like they want to be treated. And I don't use platinum rule because you still have to honor your own hard wiring. You have to be you. So I think if you just say, you know what, you got to understand that, you know, for me as an eight, 90 % of the world,

Jojo (15:30)
Yeah.

Joey Schewee (15:45)
they absolutely don't want direct blunt transparency. And so that's what I've had to work on, right? But feeling is last for me. So I mentioned you don't have a direct line to the feeling center. As a seven, you have a line to one in doing and you have another line to five. So more thinking. So what I say for fives and sevens for whom that's true and for twos and fours who don't have a direct line to thinking, for the four of you,

Balance is a fourth step. Sue and I, have direct access to all three centers. So it's not a fourth step for us. We can get there in three moves, essentially. We can cover all three. For twos and fours who have no direct line of thinking and fives and sevens who have no direct line of feeling, you guys have to work in that last, like it's a different kind of thinking for you. And so I love what you're doing with these ⁓ career changes because I'm guessing for you that comes with

some more grounded thinking. I can't be fantastical and all the possibilities. I have to really actually do what's hardest for me and that is get a single pointed focus, slow my insanely fast brain down and kind of figure some stuff out. And I swear I've watched it with my brother and my 17 year old son who's a seven. When you make that conscious choice to ground your thinking,

Jojo (16:46)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Joey Schewee (17:11)
That's when feeling opens up for you. That's when you see how you might've come across to someone in a way that wasn't good for them and you know that you care about that. I have always said, think sevens have the best hearts. just, unless you really know the Enneagram, you don't know that ultimately. Yeah.

Jojo (17:31)
Yeah, totally, totally.

And then you also had a story about, and this was so impressive, and I like totally related to this. When you were working at the private school, you were the chief advancement officer, is that right? And. ⁓

Joey Schewee (17:47)
Yeah, when I asked Sue to do

a second gala with me after I got that position, I was like, could you you killed it on the first one? I know you would never do this again, but do it with me, please. And then COVID ruined it, so it didn't matter. But.

Jojo (17:58)
Yes. ⁓

You Forgot (18:02)
Like just a quick note, I just can't stress how convincing this woman is. Like I don't understand how, and she knew I would get to a yes with, and she didn't like hound me. It was just like, I felt like, and then long story, but the year before we started.

Joey Schewee (18:18)
No.

You Forgot (18:27)
We didn't know each other. probably said hi in the halls here and there. And you whispered something to me one night and I went, she's a witch. Because you had just been watching me through that whole process of producing an event. And you had me pegged immediately without even knowing each other. You just watched me walk through this whole six months of

whatever it was and you whispered something and I just went what the fuck is woman likes

Joey Schewee (18:59)
Hmm, I know

you, I know you.

Jojo (19:01)
What did

she whisper?

Joey Schewee (19:04)
I probably just knew what was going on. I mean, I got the whole story of my take and I don't want to speak for you was that you were, you were carrying most of Sue was carrying most of the success for the event. Like, like she did most of it, but wasn't didn't need the spotlight for it. But, but I saw what it was. I mean, like I get it. I get it.

You Forgot (19:07)
Yes.

Yeah,

you saw how I was making it work with, ⁓ yes. And I.

Joey Schewee (19:37)
Yes. All the personalities. Yeah. Which nines are magical at. You're, damn

you, you're hardwired for it. We are not. Like you are. I mean, sevens are more than eights for sure. Both of you have a gift for that that I, dang it, I don't have. So.

You Forgot (19:58)
And it was like the ⁓ only thought going through my head the whole night. And then you walk up to me and you're like, so, and I was like, how did you know exactly what I was thinking? I mean, Alex.

Joey Schewee (20:10)
Yeah, yeah. And then I think

you were worried, am I showing that? What's on my face? Yeah, I'm like no, I just get it, yeah, yeah.

You Forgot (20:16)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah. And I just thought, and I didn't know anything about you teaching the Enneagram. So then getting to know you, I realized you kind of are a witch.

Joey Schewee (20:30)
It

cracks me up that you're using that because I have a ⁓ lovely nine in my cohort now who is a yoga, really big time yoga professional in Colorado. ⁓ she like, that's her thing. She's like, Joey, you're like a wizard or a witch in any game. I don't, and I like, love it and I appreciate it. Cause I get the context, but she's jumping into my mom's.

social media, anytime LTM puts something out that I'm doing, she'll just put like the little witch emoji. She's like, Joey's a witch emoji. And I think I get that. I wonder how someone, some random passerby is gonna view that. But yeah.

You Forgot (21:10)
⁓ yeah, yeah,

maybe we should say wizard. Wizard's cool.

Joey Schewee (21:13)
Either one, yeah. I've spent a lifetime

being misunderstood, so I'm good. That's what goes with the territory. Yeah, no. Okay, so we digress major, but Chief Advancement Officer.

Jojo (21:19)
And you go care.

You Forgot (21:24)
Right, I

stepped all over your question.

Jojo (21:26)
yes, and you were tasked

with doing a golf tournament and you wanted to bring in more women and you had like two weeks to make some changes and you brought in, which I think is genius, Bunko, who doesn't love to play Bunko, and tennis and then these ⁓ coolers that sponsors could put their name on and you like...

Joey Schewee (21:39)
Yep.

Jojo (21:48)
The increase in the amount of fundraising was huge, right? And I love that you were like, yeah, we have two weeks. Why can't we do this? And everyone's like, we can't do it. But you did it.

Joey Schewee (21:53)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, everyone

was like, we can't. They were like, just do one of them. I'm like, no, like it can be done. And we did. that's, mean, that's when you combine, and I think you get that as a seven too, when you combine thinking and doing like that, and we're independent, it's like, we could do anything and we'll pull it off essentially. yeah. People don't love that, right?

Jojo (22:04)
Yeah, I think I did.

No, no they don't.

Joey Schewee (22:23)
Catholic education,

it comes across as me not knowing my place or not listening to management and I'm like, but I'm gonna make all of this better for all of you. just, could you just step aside? Yes.

Jojo (22:33)
Just trust me.

I know people, maybe people in my circle, AKA my family, get a little annoyed when I'm like, I can do anything. Just trust me. I literally can do anything. And it comes off conceited. I've just proven to myself over and over again that I can.

Joey Schewee (22:42)
Yeah.

Yes. Every time. Yep.

Yep. I love it.

You Forgot (22:52)
Seriously,

you're a hustler. mean, like...

Joey Schewee (22:55)
That's my favorite term. We were talking about, I had someone, a client who wanted me to have a session with her husband because she wanted to make sure he was an eight. And one of things she said that I was like, okay, because anytime now, so many people y'all mistype as eight, it's crazy how many people mistype as eight. It's really unbelievable.

Jojo (23:18)
And why do you think that

is?

Joey Schewee (23:20)
⁓ I think people hear boss and they're like, that's me, you know, or, you know, I think they ⁓ connect with anger and they're or they're contrarian and they, they see that an eight is motivated to be against and that we're fueled by anger and they're like check, check, you know, and they're big in the room. And I'm like, there's so much more to it than that. And the nuance is I actually, eights don't like to argue. I get no energy from.

from arguing and debate, none. I get energy from the confrontation. I don't stay for the conversation that follows. what I'm saying that it's not gonna be terribly popular because it's going to go against a lot of the literature that's out there, my own wonderful mother's included, but ⁓ I think at least half of the existing literature written about Anne Graham 8,

Jojo (23:57)
you

Joey Schewee (24:19)
is actually written about fives and sixes who just mistyped as eights. And so someone observing them said, ⁓ this is all eight. And there's so much written about typical eight behavior that just isn't. It's not. Yeah. So.

Jojo (24:23)
and true.

interest.

Well that brings me to another question. Besides being like a superstar author, what else do you do? Like what services do you provide?

Joey Schewee (24:45)
So, ⁓ obviously, because I do this work in corporate, ⁓ companies hire me at all kinds of levels. So I'll be just this month, just to give you the range, I'll be in Houston with Reliant Energy with their top directors. I'll be at Baylor Hospital with their transplant division. I'll be working remotely with some corporate Chick-fil-A employees. So it literally kind of runs the gamut of...

where I work and where I find myself in corporate spaces. A rapidly growing part of my business is just one-to-one executive coaching. And so what I say ⁓ is if you, you can book a session with me online. Like it's so easy. I charge $275 for a session and we could do anything. We can work on mistyping. can, I have a lot of people who I'm their executive coach and I've never met who they manage.

Jojo (25:23)
Yeah.

Joey Schewee (25:44)
but based on their descriptions of who they manage, I can say, okay, it sounds like this person is this type, this is the angle you take, that sort of thing. ⁓ And then Billy, my husband and I, who has Dr. Shuey, has his doctorate in educational leadership, and he wrote his doctoral treatise on Enneagram in Education. So he and I are ⁓ teaching an annual cohort, and we do some Enneagram and marriage and parenting stuff kind of.

around. So there's a lot that I cover for that reason. We've already said at the beginning, you know, this is this works in any capacity in your life. So even though the book itself is written for corporate, you're going to I think it's my aim with it was a simplification of the intro. Like I wanted a primer. I haven't found one yet that works for my logical brain. I think most primers are written

with so much feeling, which is great if you're a big feeler, but if you need practical wisdom in like bite-size, tangible chunks, that was my aim, ultimately.

Jojo (26:56)
Well, that's what I received from it. I was just like, I couldn't put it down. So interesting and it was just so factual. Like just give me the facts, me, and it was just so good. ⁓

Joey Schewee (26:58)
Boom. Yeah, yeah.

But it helps

that I'm an English major, right? My husband and I together. like his, he said after reading it, he was like, you you do, there is a sing song quality to the way you write. Like it does flow really well. So I think we get the best of both worlds. It's a good way to look at what balance among the centers. I just needed to work to bring some feeling and people awareness up and then I could write the book ultimately, right? So yeah, yeah.

Jojo (27:30)
Totally. Totally.

You Forgot (27:33)
I know it's a different subject that we usually cover, but I thought that book would be amazing for like families that are navigating their care team. And you're with a bunch of different personalities, whether it's your family or the facility your person is at or ⁓ in-home care worker, whatever it is, but there's huge teams of people that are, they have one goal, but

Joey Schewee (27:44)
completely.

You Forgot (28:02)
They fight, they misunderstand each other. something like this could do wonders for families that.

Joey Schewee (28:04)
of all the stuff.

Well, and as a primary caregiver, for someone knowing ⁓ who you're dealing with and what you're asking for, kind of how to approach that. And that's what this book gives you. People have to come to their number on their own, but I don't tell people not to try and guess and understand what another person is, right? ⁓ Because anything we do to build a bridge to understanding and communicating better with someone I don't think can be bad, right?

⁓ That being said, my mom has told a story for years about someone who emailed her early on after The Road Back to You was released and said, ⁓ I found my, they had a parent with ⁓ pretty advanced Alzheimer's and they were like, I found my parent in the closet with your book and they were reading the book and they said, this person knows me, whoever wrote this.

knows me. So I do think depending on the level, right, I think there is something too. You might have lost your memory, but you know you're hardwiring.

and how this can just kind of give someone a way to say, okay, this makes sense to me. The world around me doesn't, but what I'm reading, because I know me, at the end of the day, I haven't lost my hard wiring. So you're exactly right. I think it can work on all kinds of levels.

You Forgot (29:40)
You're so smart.

Smarty pants. why did your family, your mom, you, I mean, your whole family studies it? Right.

Joey Schewee (29:52)
It's family business now. It started with mom, know, starts with

the two. She's married to a nine, so he was all in. He merged right with her.

You Forgot (30:02)
Did they just come across it one day and or was she studying something similar and like dove in or?

Joey Schewee (30:10)
So she has a pretty big flex ⁓ in that Richard Rohr for an extensive period of time was her spiritual director. So even if you're not familiar with who Richard Rohr is, he has written some incredible books. He's a Franciscan priest in Albuquerque. ⁓ He's been on Oprah, guys. So I mean, he's legit. he learned the anagram from Claudio Naron, who

essentially brought it to the US. ⁓ And he learned directly from him and in spiritual direction shared with my mom. And what my mom as a two did, I think, ⁓ uniquely, I think each of us brings something like I have no problem saying I bring logic to this. That's what's been missing, I think for a while. ⁓ She brought storytelling.

So the reason her book has sold more than a million copies and is really, it's published in 18 different languages and kind of spread worldwide, is she made it personal. As a two, she could take her experiences, but she doesn't feel what she's feeling, she feels what you're feeling. So she started, she was the first one to use personal stories to teach this. And so that's, it was a second half of life career for her.

Jojo (31:22)
Mm-hmm.

You Forgot (31:28)
⁓ gotcha.

Joey Schewee (31:34)
⁓ And I picked it up obviously along the way. Billy and I were dating when mom started learning it. So we were 19. And so we've known it for a really long time. And it's just kind of always been part of the conversation, if you will, because it certainly helps.

Jojo (31:52)
Yeah, she says in her forward that she, listen, she popped in some tapes as y'all were driving to Colorado. I love that. And I didn't realize that the belly she was talking about is now your husband. Yep.

Joey Schewee (31:58)
Yup. Yeah. I think it was Beatrice Chessner or something. Yeah. Yeah. That's Billy. Yep.

On a trip road trip to Lake City. Yeah. So it was either Helen Palmer. I think maybe it was Helen Palmer that she said the, but the cassettes. Yeah. And I remember the drive. I mean, she just popped it in and, and Billy remembers it vividly. And so, yeah. So my sister's a nine as well. So is my dad. So if you just look at the car, cause the boys were too young, it was nine dad.

Jojo (32:26)
⁓

Joey Schewee (32:29)
Nine boyfriend, nine sister, and then my mom and I had two and an eight, so yeah. Except that it's not because what I'm finding is whoever said half the world are sixes is incorrect. Essentially it's kind of known and understood that there are more sixes than any other type and fewer fours than any other type. I've expanded that. There are fewer fours and fewer eights.

You Forgot (32:35)
I wonder why that's crazy.

Joey Schewee (32:57)
We just have all these people mistyping as eights. But true eights and true fours are rarely in the room when I'm teaching. And there are always more nines and more sixes. So I say there are more nines and more sixes than any other time, ultimately.

You Forgot (33:11)
So when you have a group of people that you're teaching and someone is insisting they're a certain type and you're like, actually, after being with you, I think you are that number. How does that conversation go? Are they open?

Joey Schewee (33:19)
much.

Right.

A lot better now than it used to. I definitely,

I've worked and really worked to work on how I do that because AIDS are all about transparency and truth, right? So I'm just like, let's rip the bandaid off in front of everyone and people don't like that and they can't come back from that, especially if they're bringing a lot of feeling, right?

But there's all, it's hard to explain and I'm really trying to get people to understand I've known this for 30 years. I'm an eight, I'm intuitive, I'm gut centered and I know this. I'm like, know I don't know you. I always tell people, please notice I'm not ever saying to someone who is mistyping that you know yourself better than I do. That's a given. Those words aren't gonna come out of my mouth. What's gonna come out of my mouth is,

It's your journey and you can do it well and you can be on the right path or you can do all the wrong work and get nowhere, you know? And so it's evolved to where I'm a little more gentle and a little more subtle now. I'm gonna maybe pull you aside. I'm gonna offer something. And for the most part, I can get people there. Historically, the type that I cannot get.

is fives. Who have, now I've, I help a lot of fives, a lot, who ⁓ do realize they're not an eight or a one or a three. That's where fives tend to mistype the most. ⁓ But fives are independent and solitary thinkers. ⁓ That's the same for sevens. Y'all share that line. And both mean you can't influence their thinking. So I can't, like,

I know if I'm hitting that wall with a five and they want to argue about it and I'm like, dude, you're usually, or a female, you're usually the smartest in the room, but now you've met someone who matches you intellectually and I know more about this than you. And I'm not going to argue with you. You want to debate and I'm, that's showing me along with your sarcasm and cynicism that that's, none of that is eight. So you're not, you're not hitting on any of it.

And it's your journey. I'm gonna present you with what I believe and then I'm gonna move on, ultimately.

You Forgot (35:51)
I think that happened. I went to ⁓ one of your presentations and there was a man in there that first of all, didn't, I don't think he wanted to be there anyway. Like it was just like, he was along with his, it was like.

Joey Schewee (35:56)
Yeah.

Which is how five

support the people they love is by showing up for the shit they don't wanna do. Yeah.

You Forgot (36:09)
Yeah. And

he, ⁓ like, I don't think he wanted to learn. But then when he was typed, he, was not combative, but argumentative about it. And he just, we're like, sorry. Like, wow.

Joey Schewee (36:15)
No.

Yeah.

Okay, moving on.

And I'm like, it's not, I'm not trying to be mean girls. I'm not trying to say you can't sit with us, but it, it does, it frustrates me when people can't learn from someone who knows what they're like talking about. Like when it came up in my cohort in the first, so mine and Billy's cohort, this is our second year, first year, 27 people.

Okay, in our cohort we take 27 to 30. Nine were mistyped, one third. And I knew from the Thursday introductions, so I knew from you talking for five to seven minutes about why you were there that you were not the number that you were. I come back on Friday and morning and say I was up all night and I'm trying to work on how I present this but I figure this is a learning opportunity. Y'all are in the room because you wanna learn from me. So here's why.

and I did the thing and it rocked. The cohort came together, most of them saw what I was saying and by the end of the year they were like, they're still so close. They're like, this was the best experience of my life. But people don't want someone who doesn't know them saying, but I know you. And that's what I say. was like, I don't know you, but I know ⁓ a 10,000 like you, cause I've met with all of them.

And that's what's different about what I do. I think most people who write books and do this work stand and deliver, right? They observe, they teach in big spaces, they don't do this one-to-one thing that I do. And that's what I do. And so I'm bringing someone to their number, but I'm catching all the nuances of that. So it just adds to my understanding of that type every time I do it. So yeah, but it's a...

I do appreciate that when I kind of blew up the cohort last ⁓ year, there's always a group chat with these and Billy and I group me and Billy and I refuse to be in it. They need to have their conversations. But my friend Tara was in it and so she shared with me when people were kind of like, my God, like blown away after the weekend, like getting a little catty, the nine was like, y'all, you paid to learn from her because you.

Jojo (38:27)
Okay.

Joey Schewee (38:43)
You thought you applied to be in her cohort, you paid to learn from her because you think she has something to say, like, where did that go in all of this? So, yeah, well, it's a thing.

You Forgot (38:50)
Wow.

Jojo (38:52)
That's so

fascinating. I mist-typed myself at first as well. My book club really got into this about 10 years ago. And I was like, oh, I'm a nine. I'm so easygoing.

Joey Schewee (39:03)
Yeah, sevens and nines mistype a

lot like that.

Jojo (39:06)
But then I think it was maybe either Sue or my sister pointed out that I'm a reframer and I don't realize I'm doing it and I don't. Especially if someone says, tell me about your childhood. I'm like, well, it wasn't great, but honestly, there was a lot of like really great parts. I have a lot of siblings and I'm always, and then someone was like, you do this all the time though. Like when I was like, well, I have to drive a bus and it totally sucks. I really wish I had health insurance, but I get to see all these cute faces every day. just.

And then I don't realize I'm doing it, but I do it all the time. Yeah.

Joey Schewee (39:38)
Cause it's your hard wiring. It's your hard wiring.

What's, I love this little tie to you two and Matt, who we think is a two, right? Cause sevens, nines and twos, y'all are all positive outlook. So you, if you took a test and I, I'm not going to get on that sub box, but tests are wrong. So just know there's thousands out there. You can pay for them or not, but they're going to, it's a flip of the coin, whether it's going to get you correctly. And a lot of people, sevens, nines and twos will test as each other.

Jojo (39:46)
Yeah.

Joey Schewee (40:06)
that's what the test will spit out, a different number, and it's because you're all positive outlook. The difference in you two and Matt is you two reframe with your mind. You reframe, because Sue starts in doing what she processes with thinking like you do. So y'all are both five sevens and nines. Y'all are the most live and let live. You're the most just step back, take it in. You're not going to get too emotionally invested because you're the three who process with logic and objective reason.

Jojo (40:10)
⁓

Joey Schewee (40:35)
Thinking, right? Two, so you two are, when you're reframing, you're reframing logically, objectively. When a two reframes, Matt's reframing the person. He's giving that human being the benefit of the doubt, and it will not work every time. And when it doesn't, when the person doesn't change, because he changed the person in his mind, he goes to eight, flips out, you know, he gets angry, all the things.

And so it's, know this is, yeah, yeah. This is what I get to do. I love it so much. I'm like, I don't know how long this system's been around, but it's been around for a really long time for a reason because there's nothing that I'm finding. can't draw a thread and just be like, well, yeah, of course that's why that is, right?

Jojo (41:08)
This is so true.

So if people are listening to this and they want to know what their number is, we already know the online tests are bullshit. What should they do?

Joey Schewee (41:38)
It is a kind of a shameless plug. Pick up my book because it's the best. mean, get it on Amazon. You can get it or at Barnes and Noble or wherever you get books, wherever books are sold, you can get it because it's quick, easy, and it's tangible. ⁓ If you want something in your hand right away, go to any grandparents. Billy and I started on Instagram. We we pushed everything we do to Facebook. We started it five or six years ago for marriage and parenting. But that's where I ended up. I ended up using that platform.

to just essentially flesh out all of my thoughts for the book. So it's all, like my book is on Instagram in our any grandparents account. just, yeah, that's a great way I've got, just start, you know, we've got obviously the stories by number at the top, but there's, we do a new series every three weeks and I think you can learn. I tell people I'm not going to, I loathe the memeification.

Jojo (42:18)
Any of your parents? I'm looking it up.

Joey Schewee (42:36)
of Enneagram. So I'm not gonna tell you your Starbucks order based on your type. I'm not gonna tell you what you want for Christmas or your favorite cocktail. I'm giving you logical bite-sized chunks of Enneagram wisdom. And you can just pick it up and follow a thread. So yeah, yeah.

Jojo (42:52)
Totally. And something

your mom said that spoke to me was when you're hearing these descriptions or reading these descriptions, one is just going to stick with you and you're going to be like, that's me. You don't need to take all of the multiple choice questions.

Joey Schewee (43:08)
Yes, unless you're a six and if you're a six, sixes, while eight is the most common number to mistype as, sixes are the type to mistype the most. And it's almost like if you're a six, because there's a lot of ways to look at it, but sixes are walking contradictions. So Sue as a nine, three, six and nine are all interconnected. They're the only three who are. So those three types just move through the centers faster than any other type.

Which is why this is where you and I are out, Joanna, the three, sixes and nines, y'all are the most accommodating without even trying. You're the most accommodating types because you're interconnected and you're just without realizing it, your hard wiring is, okay, I'll try this. I'll pick up this center. This isn't working. I'll do this. And so that's like naturally happening. Well, for Sue to take in with doing, but process with thinking, that's not a contradiction. Like those are gonna work hand in hand.

Jojo (43:46)
⁓ true.

Joey Schewee (44:06)
For threes, we say threes are the fake it till you make it people. They take in with feeling, they can read the room, they're shaking hands and kissing babies, but they're going to process with doing. There's no contradiction there. Sixes value logic and objective reason, but they process with their subjective lens. So you are crossing the divide of thinking and feeling. Those don't intermingle well because you're talking about emotion and subjective.

lens versus logic and objective reason. But they're hardwired to use both and to value both. And so they talk themselves out of six before they land on an incorrect type, essentially. And it's usually two or four if they're really tied to their anxiety ⁓ or if they're more counter phobic leaning, which you'll just have to look at what that means. Sixes are the also the only type who kind of draw from a spectrum of behaviors. They're either

stepping back and waiting for authority to do something or they're challenging authority. But both ways, their focus is on authority. And just a little plug, that's why all these sixes who think they're eights, no, my focus is not on authority. I'm standing independent from authority. And so these sixes come in so many different flavors, right? Like there's a flavor of nines. There's a general flavor of eights. There's a general flavor of sevens.

Jojo (45:08)
Thank

Joey Schewee (45:36)
not sixes. And so with all of that happening, I say they're walking contradictions and I have so much compassion and understanding for how easy it is for them to mistype because they value the information but they don't trust the information. It has to marry with their subjective lens in order for it to be true in their mind ultimately. And they talk themselves out of everything because they're the yes but people.

Like I know I have a six. If I'm like, well, does this happen to you? And I'm trying to get them to six. Well, it depends is the answer. If I get it depends, then take it to the bank. I'm talking to a six, essentially.

Jojo (46:15)
Yeah, my brother-in-law is a counterphobic six. Bucking the authority.

Joey Schewee (46:21)
Yeah, they kind of give

eights a bad name because they think they're eights. Here's the difference in a counterphobic six and an eight. I don't, feeling is last for me and it's where sixes process. So I say, ⁓ both of us come on strong. A six knows exactly how they're coming across and they choose it anyway. They choose that delivery anyway. As an eight, I literally thought that was great.

Jojo (46:32)
Yes.

Joey Schewee (46:50)
We got to the heart of that. I thought it was honoring and honest. And I walk away thinking really great and no, it wasn't. So that's the difference right there. Yeah.

You Forgot (46:51)
you

Jojo (46:53)
Nailed it.

Yeah, I also like about sixes versus sevens. I think maybe that's something your mom said. Sixes will be like, well, sevens will be like, what's the worst that could happen? And sixes are like, what is the worst that could happen?

Joey Schewee (47:12)
Yeah, yes. Exactly,

exactly. I say the non-negotiable for sixes. So we might as well just thread that through. Non-negotiable for ones is the consistent internal criticism. Like I say the non-negotiable is it could happen here and there with other types. It is core to being that number. So if this isn't cutting it for you, then you need to look at another number ultimately.

Jojo (47:24)
Okay.

Joey Schewee (47:39)
So for ones, the non-negotiable is that pervasive inner criticism. Like it's just never, they never shut it off because their hardwiring won't let it happen. So they're spending so much mental energy thinking about how they could have done things better all the time. Twos, it's the feeling what someone else is feeling before they connect to their own. Threes, it's two part. They disconnect from negative emotion easily, all threes do, and then project positivity in its place.

So when I have a five who thinks they're a three, I get that. You're both in the competency group, like you two are in the positive outlook group, fives and threes are in the competency group. And a five can disconnect from pretty much any emotion but anger, but they are not projecting positivity in its place ever. So that's kinda how you know that. Fours, it's the seeing what's missing and the fluctuating emotions. Fives, it's the social battery.

Jojo (48:27)
No.

Joey Schewee (48:36)
Even if you have the reason, the way I know I have a five is if I ask them if they're introverted or extroverted, they will never say they're extroverted. They will say I'm ambiverted because they know they have an internal reference point, but they're just more comfortable socially. Right. Those are the fives who mistype as sevens and eights all the time, all the time. But the social battery is there for them. It's just a bigger tank ultimately that they're drawing from. I'll skip sixes and hits yours is sevens is

that you're going to live life in the positive half range of emotion. It's the reframing that happens all the time. ⁓ For me, it's the, ⁓ the conflict, the confrontation of conflict energizes me. And for Sue and for Nines, it's seeing both sides in conflict. You can't not, you literally see it from both sides. It's why you're called a mediator, it's why everybody loves you, because you are wired for that harmony.

Jojo (49:30)
Mm-hmm.

Joey Schewee (49:33)
And for sixes, it's a two-parter like it is for threes. Part one, ⁓ man, is the superfluous context. So I say for everybody else, critical context fits in like this space. For sixes, what they believe is critical context is unending. And so they're gonna give, they want all that information and they're gonna offer you all of that information. And it's way more than anyone needed.

Jojo (49:59)
Yes.

Joey Schewee (50:02)
But in their subjective mind, especially if they can't get you to see it from their point of view, they'll just give you more information. Because what do they value? Information. They just don't process there. And then the second piece, I don't say it's worst case scenario planning because a counterphobic six doesn't really hit with that, but it is contingency planning. Every six on the planet walks through life with contingency plans just tucked away. And that's a six thing for sure. Yeah.

You Forgot (50:31)
Is

Anthony a six? No, see, we'll never know what Anthony is until he sits down with you.

Jojo (50:35)
We don't know what Anthony is.

Joey Schewee (50:38)
I want a session with Anthony. I thought for the longest time he was a five. Okay, I still am leaning toward that. The thing that got me though, but fives can do it different ways, like so Sue walked in, Billy loved it. Sue walked in with Anthony yesterday for the book signing and Anthony was like, bookstore. Like he was like, I think it's been like 10 years since I've read a book. And I'm not, I'm not.

You Forgot (50:41)
I know.

Jojo (50:43)
That's what

I thought!

Joey Schewee (51:07)
I don't read a lot either. used to, I was a voracious reader. I just don't as much anymore. Billy reads all the time. So that got me, cause I think five's just in general.

love reading, but I think he could still be a five and he's just absorbing information in different ways, ultimately. But the Irish goodbyes, the social batteries there, like it's all, there's so many things that do hit for me. they don't say they love you, which is fine for a nine, you don't need a ton, but I say they're not warm and fuzzy, what they're doing is showing you they love you.

Jojo (51:25)
Yeah, totally.

You Forgot (51:27)
Who knows?

Jojo (51:29)
Yes.

Joey Schewee (51:49)
by supporting the stuff, by going to the stuff they don't wanna go to, by, you know, that's how they.

You Forgot (51:54)
See,

this is where I check out on him doing that.

Joey Schewee (51:57)
I know,

cause you'd, yeah. Never was though, never was.

You Forgot (52:00)
No offense, Anthony, he is more

like, ⁓ lovey. Like he says, I love you and all that stuff. But if he can be of service, like when I slice my thumb off, his goal was to get me in a doctor, a surgeon, like the next morning. Like he just focused all on that and like all that stuff. But as far as like, yeah, supporting me and do it like that, like.

Joey Schewee (52:15)
Yeah.

See,

think supporting like the podcast and this is great. It's not practical, it's not functional. I think he is a five and in his brain, you've got it. There's nothing for him to do, because you're doing it. So think about it, fives don't have a line of feeling, so they show you they love you by doing. And if there's nothing he can do to support you, you're not gonna get it. Because he's smart enough to know what you can and can't do.

You Forgot (52:42)
Yeah, that's true.

Joey Schewee (52:56)
Cause you're a very naturally independent person anyway. Yeah. I'm sticking a five on him.

Jojo (52:59)
true.

You Forgot (53:00)
Yeah,

yeah, now I'm back to five. You know, when I went to see you, or you know, learn from you, I was every number until, I'm like, oh, I'm that, I'm that, that, I'm that, that. Until Billy came in and represented the nines. And I was just like, sad. I was like, yes, that's what I did, yes, that's me. Like, it was so funny.

Jojo (53:03)
You

Joey Schewee (53:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jojo (53:22)
Yep.

Joey Schewee (53:26)
Every time, every time.

I love, and he's so good. He's just so good with everything, his presentation and everything. I ⁓ can't wait for his time with this work because he's just so dynamic in the room, but you just, you got me. So, you know, I'm so much that people assume, well, Billy's just the side gig. No, Billy's legit. Yeah. And he knows what he's doing. Yeah.

You Forgot (53:53)
No, he's

got mean character energy. He's just waiting to like, he's just waiting a minute. ⁓

Jojo (54:02)
If we want

to go to one of your presentations, how do we find out where those are happening?

Joey Schewee (54:08)
Honestly, I don't have like a mailing list or anything. So it's gonna be Instagram and Facebook. Like I'm gonna do something in DFW at the end of April with my mom. And that's already up there with the registration link. So that's, I think that's the best way. Yeah.

You Forgot (54:15)
Yeah.

I just saw that this morning and genius you're offering childcare.

Joey Schewee (54:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jojo (54:29)
genius.

You Forgot (54:31)
I was like so hyped and I'm like, I don't need that. But I'm like, that's.

Joey Schewee (54:34)
But I've still, yeah,

it's so good. And it was a great way. It's at my, it's mine and Billy's church. We love it. It's great space. First Methodist Richardson. But for us, it's like, I just want to get this out in the world. What's the best way to do it? This is a great venue. So there is a cost and it's all going to the dream capital campaign for, so essentially help ministries. So it's not even going to us. And yeah, I think it's gonna be good. ⁓

mom and I kind of toyed with what's a good way to do this because she's well known, but she has a very different approach and how do we do something together when it's what we do is very, very different. And so I'm gonna have the morning to kind of go through essentially how the book's set up and this is my approach ultimately. Then the afternoon's all gonna be just our joint teaching Q and A. We're probably gonna get a panel going. So I think it'll be really, really good. Yeah.

Jojo (55:33)
how exciting. I hope I can make it.

Joey Schewee (55:36)
Well, if it's

one of the weekends, you can't get to come home.

Jojo (55:39)
I know, I know, I gotta look at my calendar. I wanna go so bad. Well, listen, do you have, no, I was just gonna ask Sue, do you have more questions? I don't wanna waste, I know that you're like busy.

Joey Schewee (55:41)
Check it out. Yeah.

You Forgot (55:43)
I know I should. go ahead.

Joey Schewee (55:50)
Y'all

aren't, I don't have, I'm good. So you make this as long as you want. I've got a very easy zoom at one o'clock.

You Forgot (55:58)
I do have a question about your sons.

Joey Schewee (56:03)
Yes.

You Forgot (56:06)
Do they look, do you think that they will end up teaching or anything in the end? Because, okay, I listened to your son with your mom the other day.

Holy crap.

Joey Schewee (56:21)
I know, I could cry right now. He's just an incredible human being, yeah.

You Forgot (56:23)
I,

the emotional intelligence on a 20 year old male right now was, I just got the chills. I was so proud of him. I can't believe how open and I mean, okay. I haven't talked to Will since like, mean, maybe eighth grade or something.

Joey Schewee (56:30)
Yeah, man, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, a long time.

You Forgot (56:47)
blown away.

Joey Schewee (56:49)
So let's look at knowing Enneagram. He's a four and fours are, he is motivated to be understood. All fours are. That's his only motivating need is to be understood in a world where fours are not because of the fluctuating emotions. the way I say it is, if you think about your moods over a span of a month, if you're not a four, that's what a four cycles through in a day. Literally true, take it to the bank.

and we knew an enneagram. So Will does not, ⁓ fours are kind of known for doing some outlandish things either with their appearance or ⁓ how they present because they want to be understood but they want to hold onto their uniqueness and no one understands them and there's this kind of natural push-pull. You're not gonna see that with Will, not because he's not a four but because his

You Forgot (57:44)
Mm-mm.

Joey Schewee (57:46)
only motivating need was met in our house. We understood him. Right?

You Forgot (57:51)
Right.

So they both really respect the enneagram too, the boys. understand it.

Joey Schewee (57:58)
Oh yeah, yeah. So Sam,

the 17 year old, so 20 year old is a four, the 17 year old, the junior in high school is a seven. He's living his best life every day. And for Sam, it is different parenting. The parenting is different. I mean, we have, we hold them to the same rules and standards and all this stuff, but for, we never had to talk to Will about thinking of others.

Jojo (58:07)
Go.

Joey Schewee (58:25)
That's our consistent conversation with Sam, right? Like, will, if he's not self-focused, which he starts there, it's one or two, which is both responsive. He's actually doubly responsive with his lines to one and two. And so for him, it was more of ⁓ accepting the natural disappointment and not trying to fix it, because that's what we do with our fours. They're on a pendulum or on a swing. That's how they describe it. And they're coming back, but when...

what they catch onto is what's missing. Because fours inherently feel like they're missing something. And so they're just looking for that connection outside of them. So disappointment's natural. And if we didn't know the Enneagram, I think I would have spent the last 20 years of Will's life calling him an ungrateful little shit. Anytime, life didn't work and he was disappointed, right? But instead we were like, valid, and we'll be here when you're over it, essentially. And...

For Sam, he never sees what's missing. He only sees all the limitless possibilities. For Sam, it's, okay, there are other people that you're living with. Like, we can't always do the thing you wanna do. you know, this give and take that he needs to learn, ultimately. So they're awesome. Who knows what Sam's gonna do? I will tell you, it warms my heart that his, he, um.

anything that I put out that's around my book or anything, Sam's putting in his stories. Like he and his buddy, Charlie, his golf buddy Charlie showed up at the signing yesterday. So he's doing it in his way, right? ⁓ Will is a psych major. He decided this year he wants to be a therapist. So I'm certain he'll be using Anteogram and it will be incredible, yeah. Can you imagine a male therapist? Like, first of all, we need more of him. And then Will Shuey, he's.

Jojo (59:58)
Hell yeah.

You Forgot (59:58)
Yeah.

Jojo (1:00:16)
He'll be part of the family business.

Yes.

Joey Schewee (1:00:22)
wired to be in touch with his feelings, but he also gets anagram like he'll be, it'll be great. Yeah.

You Forgot (1:00:28)
did they ever get mad at you guys like when they were younger and just be like screw your little number system like i'm just pissed and or were they just they just it's

Joey Schewee (1:00:36)
I'll tell you,

I'll tell you Sam, because my brother is a seven.

So it's, and as a seven, Joel's had some real, like he's in recovery for alcohol, had some life lessons. So at one point when Sam was like 12, I think, or 13, he was like, guys, I love you. I am not Uncle Joel. Like, I'm, because every lesson, every teaching was like, if you don't figure this out, you're gonna do, this is gonna happen. And so,

Jojo (1:00:59)
Okay.

Joey Schewee (1:01:07)
So it wasn't no anagram, it was just let me be my seven self and not Uncle Joel. And you'll appreciate this as both of you as positive outlook. When Will was in high school, he loves anagram. When he was in high school, he looked at Billy at one point and he was like, dad, I love you. And your positivity is annoying. Like when he just wanted to be just down. But again, because we know anagram, none of that's offensive. It all fits, yeah.

You Forgot (1:01:11)
Okay.

Jojo (1:01:31)
episode.

No, what a fantastic tool to have as a parent.

You Forgot (1:01:37)
that up.

Joey Schewee (1:01:40)
my gosh,

yeah.

You Forgot (1:01:43)
I had to apologize the other day for being too 90 because I, it was with Marina and our cousin she was venting and I had to do that thing, because I came back with, ⁓ we should see this side of it, you know? you don't want to hear me do that. Like, I'm so fucking annoying.

Joey Schewee (1:02:01)
Yeah, you just want me to have to be your advocate.

Yeah, yeah.

You Forgot (1:02:04)
Yes. And I was like,

I am on your side. I love you. You know, all the things, but I was like, I had to like check myself and, know, get the phone and call her back and apologize. Yeah. Well, because I

Joey Schewee (1:02:16)
I love that. Good for you. Good for you. That's what I love. I mean, it's

Jojo (1:02:18)
Yeah, good for you.

Joey Schewee (1:02:21)
going to help us understand people, but it helps us be better to the people we love, you know?

Jojo (1:02:25)
Yes.

You Forgot (1:02:26)
I've learned a lot like with my daughter. But I do that nine thing and see both sides and blah, blah, blah. And a 23 year old daughter does not want to hear that she is just needs her mom to listen to her and

Joey Schewee (1:02:35)
Doesn't want it.

You Forgot (1:02:42)
help her get through whatever it is, but I can do that with her, but I catch, have to catch myself with other people because I think they're, they're not my daughter. They, you know, I don't know, but I'm learning because I have tools.

Joey Schewee (1:02:53)
Sure. But you're,

and you've got the tools and your gift is, I mean, I don't, when Billy read, when my nine has been read the nine chapter, he was like, that's really good. Like you made us sound really good. I'm like, well, you're at the top of the damn anagram for a reason. You like there, you don't have to work on too much really. Like there's something to you nines that is just good for the world ultimately.

Jojo (1:03:12)
Yes.

Joey Schewee (1:03:21)
Well, Will's girlfriend is a nine and they are, they're doing long distance and they're making it work and she adores him and I'm just like thrilled, thrilled. Cause to me, like the numbers gonna matter a little bit. I mean, it's gonna help me understand, just check, knowing she's a nine, I'm like, okay, it's gonna be good. You're gonna love my son. You're gonna support him, huh? Yeah.

Jojo (1:03:41)
You're good.

You Forgot (1:03:42)
you're a pro. You're a pro with nines. You're surrounded

by nines.

Joey Schewee (1:03:49)
I am

literally surrounded by nines, yes. Here's why I am lucky. The only reason I'm lucky is they're not offended by my anger. Because you have it, you're fueled by it just as much as I am. So yours is just comes out very differently.

You Forgot (1:03:51)
You're so lucky.

Joey Schewee (1:04:09)
But I say eights, nines, and ones, we're the least conscious of our own anger. We're in the anger triad. We're the least conscious of our own anger. But the flip of that is we're the most comfortable with the expression of anger in everyone else. so, yes, it's a good thing, because my anger is very out in the world. I feel it, I express it, I move on. But to be surrounded by nines who aren't getting offended by that, when the rest of the world says Joey personally attacked me, when I didn't.

You Forgot (1:04:33)
Yeah. ⁓

Joey Schewee (1:04:38)
My voice just got raised. You know, I didn't say anything about your person. Be logical. Be better.

You Forgot (1:04:46)
people have been mad at you because you're just too intelligent for them. I'm sorry. Like you're just spitting facts and people don't want to hear it. whatever. I'm sorry.

Joey Schewee (1:04:56)
Well, you know, what it is is it's

my, and the word, I use it in the book, because it was not, it was handed to me like almost 20 years ago, is egregious self-confidence. Aids have egregious, and you think, you think you know what egregious means, and then you look it up and it means offensive. And I'm like, how can anyone's self-confidence be offensive to someone else? It's my self-confidence, but it is.

Jojo (1:05:07)
Yes.

Joey Schewee (1:05:25)
It is.

Jojo (1:05:28)
really?

Joey Schewee (1:05:30)
And Joanna, is, you have the, yours, think, sevens and eights. I think that thinking and doing in tandem, you and I are unique in that our self-confidence is pure and very real. But you just don't come across like that. You don't have the intensity that I have. And so people, I don't know, they take you better. just do. Yeah.

You Forgot (1:05:53)
She's sweeter than you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're gonna like her better than you.

Jojo (1:05:58)
You know

what I love about Sue though is I can, she's so good at just relationships and seeing both sides. You know how many times I'll text her and be like, okay, my dog's that are really pissed me off. And I might be obnoxious and she'll tell her, I'll tell her story. She'll be like, yeah, I think you need to chill a little bit. But I'm like, yes, but also I trust her that I've been crazy and she's not.

Joey Schewee (1:06:17)
Yeah, little bit, but we can receive it. I tell nines all the time, speak up.

Yep, I tell nines all the time, speak was like, you're hardwired to say tough things in a way that everyone can receive it. And it makes you wanna vomit, but I always say, if you think you've said something that makes you feel awful, just know it landed really well on the other person.

It's a gift. It's a gift. You're at the top for a reason, is what I say.

Jojo (1:06:48)
Totally.

You Forgot (1:06:54)
Go Sue. All right, we should probably let you go. know Joanna has a life. I don't, but you two. I know I'm so mad you're going into quarantine for six weeks, Joanna.

Jojo (1:07:00)
Yes.

No, I could talk to you for hours. Hours.

Joey Schewee (1:07:11)
I know.

Jojo (1:07:13)
I know. But think of the freedom I'll have, Sue. Think of the freedom.

Joey Schewee (1:07:17)
Think of the

freedom.

You Forgot (1:07:19)
Like, I can't wait to be flying again. Maybe I'll live in New York City again. ⁓ Family what? They are flying. We're adults.

Joey Schewee (1:07:21)
You

Jojo (1:07:26)
They're fine.

Joey Schewee (1:07:27)
I have a connection at American.

I don't know where he is in everything, but he's been talking to me for like, he's a big fan. He's a one, his name's Chris. And he's like, I'm you, I'm working on it. I'm working on it. at some point, maybe the culmination, you'll get out of training and I'll be, we'll be doing this at American Airlines. That would be lovely. I know. Wouldn't it be so great? Yeah.

Jojo (1:07:48)
That would be so exciting and then I can... Yes! Okay,

that's exciting.

You Forgot (1:07:54)
Okay, well,

we talked about where you can get the book, right? It's on Amazon. It's actually wherever you buy books.

Joey Schewee (1:08:00)
Wherever

books are sold. I will say Amazon, go to bookstores, because bookstores are awesome. But Amazon is great because that helps Amazon numbers run, drive more than I ever thought they would. So, yeah, Amazon's great. And review it. That's the other thing. If you buy it there.

You Forgot (1:08:13)
Wow, okay, cool.

Jojo (1:08:17)
I will.

As soon as I hang up, I'm going to review it because I pre-ordered it.

Joey Schewee (1:08:21)
Yay, love it. That's the other thing I just found out. Like I need to hit 50 reviews in the first two months for some big thing to happen. Cause I'm already in the top new release in two categories, in popular psychology and in Christian business and professional growth. So it's the Christian business and professional growth because the publisher is a Christian, predominantly Christian publisher, which is fine. I mean, yeah, it's all good. Even though the book's not.

doesn't have a spiritual slant at all, as you both know.

You Forgot (1:08:54)
Yeah, none.

Joey Schewee (1:08:55)
Mm-mm.

Jojo (1:08:55)
Okay, and then if you want to find Joey on Instagram, just follow any of your grandparents. Correct? Okay.

Joey Schewee (1:09:00)
Yep.

I

and why? There it is. Woohoo!

You Forgot (1:09:06)
Why is it

Joey and Billy? Love me some Billy's.

Joey Schewee (1:09:09)
Yep. Well, thank you all for having

me. I love this. We should do this more. I hope this particular podcast gets a lot of likes and we can just call it the off-ramp sessions that's, you know.

Jojo (1:09:23)
Genius. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time, Joey. Really appreciate it.

Joey Schewee (1:09:24)
Count me in.

You Forgot (1:09:24)
off ramp specialist.

Joey Schewee (1:09:31)
Have fun going into training and all the fun that you're gonna have because you get to just not be at home doing the boring stuff. So yay. Sue and I will be here doing the boring stuff.

Jojo (1:09:31)
Okay.

Alright. Alright, so we have...

You Forgot (1:09:41)
I know I'm.

I'll be solo on a podcast talking to myself for six weeks. ⁓ I gotta figure out what that's gonna be like.

Joey Schewee (1:09:54)
It's gonna

be great.

Jojo (1:09:56)
That's gonna be great. All right.

You Forgot (1:09:57)
Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, thank you, Joey. Talk to you soon. Bye, Joanna. Don't forget about me. ⁓

Joey Schewee (1:10:01)
Thanks!

Jojo (1:10:02)
Bye!

Bye, touchy and fudge.

You Forgot (1:10:11)
Thanks for listening to You Forgot That I Existed today. Please like and subscribe where you listen to your podcasts. To find out more about author Joey Shuey, you can find her at AnyGrandparents on Instagram. And her website is WeSolutions. That's one word, W-E-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-S dot life. And you can find her book, When Working Together Doesn't Work.

anywhere you buy your books. Thank you.